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New challenge goes live today!
foilman
Kwon-Tom Admin
Puzzles: 1718
Best Total: 24m 8s
Posted - 2006.02.16 08:58:50
There might be a surprise for any of our registered users completing  puzzles from now onwards. When you successfully solve a Kwon-Tom Loop, you'll be offered the chance to take part in a secondary challenge known as a "Kwon-Tom Wrong".

Myself, Stephen & jimbobjoe have been testing this over the past couple of days and it seems to be working ok, so I've now opened it up to all registered users. Not all puzzles have an associated "Wrong" challenge yet, but give it about a week and all the archived puzzles should have one.

Have fun!
Last edited by foilman - 2006.02.16 08:59:34
astrokath
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 3093
Best Total: 13m 42s
Posted - 2006.02.16 10:10:48
Oh, I *LIKE* it!




Last edited by astrokath - 2006.02.16 10:11:00
procrastinator
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 1083
Best Total: 12m 56s
Posted - 2006.02.16 12:13:57
Fortunately, this is something I've been giving myself a lot of practise at recently.
nevstyles
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 537
Best Total: 27m 19s
Posted - 2006.02.16 12:21:31
I solved today's puzzle and saw the link for the new puzzle, but sadly I had to get on with some work )  I have just gone back to try it, but I cannot find a link for it anywhere, am I just being dim?!
tzukanion
Kwon-Tom Addict
Puzzles: 436
Best Total: 17m 39s
Posted - 2006.02.16 12:41:36
You can only see the know-tom-wrong puzzle on the page that comes up immediately after you complete a puzzle, so you'll just have to re-do today's puzzle if you want to give it a go.
foilman
Kwon-Tom Admin
Puzzles: 1718
Best Total: 24m 8s
Posted - 2006.02.16 13:24:38
That's right, it's based on the solution you provide so it only appears when you've just finished a puzzle. Everyone's starting position will look slightly different depending on what crosses they have in place, but the ultimate solution will of course always be the same.
drnull
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 901
Best Total: 23m 25s
Posted - 2006.02.16 13:37:52
Quote:
Originally Posted by foilman
Everyone's starting position will look slightly different depending on what crosses they have in place, but the ultimate solution will of course always be the same.
Fun!  So, do you change the same number on each person?  I can see this being very good practice for when you find that little mistake...

Nice addition!
foilman
Kwon-Tom Admin
Puzzles: 1718
Best Total: 24m 8s
Posted - 2006.02.16 13:42:10
Quote:
Originally Posted by drnull
Fun!  So, do you change the same number on each person?  I can see this being very good practice for when you find that little mistake...

Yes, each person will have the same problem. They're ranked in difficulty totally differently to the normal week (easy -> very hard). Instead these go from easy (possible in less than 20 changes), to medium (possible in less than 40 changes) up to hard (at least 40 changes) and there's no pattern to what appears on what day, so you might get an easy on a Friday and a hard on a Monday.

It is indeed good practise for situations where you finish but have something wrong; unfortunately I don't get into that position very often these days, so I'm rubbish at the Wrongs!!
drnull
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 901
Best Total: 23m 25s
Posted - 2006.02.16 13:55:47
And one other thing...  I guess it's obvious once you think about it (otherwise we'd all have the same "change" basis score) but you charge us a change even if we put it back the way it was, right? 
astrokath
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 3093
Best Total: 13m 42s
Posted - 2006.02.16 13:59:22
Mmm..  And it's nice to shift the emphasis from time to number of changes.

Which makes me think - the best starting place for a Kwon Tom wrong would be the completed puzzle *without* any crosses...
Last edited by astrokath - 2006.02.16 13:59:51
foilman
Kwon-Tom Admin
Puzzles: 1718
Best Total: 24m 8s
Posted - 2006.02.16 14:17:42
Quote:
Originally Posted by drnull
And one other thing...  I guess it's obvious once you think about it (otherwise we'd all have the same "change" basis score) but you charge us a change even if we put it back the way it was, right? 
That's right, yes. Anything you click on counts as a change, even if you change it back - so be careful! However, once you've clicked on a segment, you can change it as many times as you like and your count won't go any higher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by astrokath
Which makes me think - the best starting place for a Kwon Tom wrong would be the completed puzzle *without* any crosses...
That's what I initially thought, but I don't think it actually makes much difference, because ultimately all you're doing is changing gaps or crosses into lines and lines into crosses or gaps. Therefore crosses & gaps are interchangeable. But it might make it easier to see the solution if there aren't crosses everywhere...
drnull
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 901
Best Total: 23m 25s
Posted - 2006.02.16 22:53:55
I think there's a slight problem when you get the same number of changes, but takes you longer than the top scorer.  It tells you that you have the best result recorded, which isn't *really* true.
foilman
Kwon-Tom Admin
Puzzles: 1718
Best Total: 24m 8s
Posted - 2006.02.17 08:39:28
Quote:
Originally Posted by drnull
I think there's a slight problem when you get the same number of changes, but takes you longer than the top scorer.  It tells you that you have the best result recorded, which isn't *really* true.
Thanks for the info... I think I've got it fixed, but I'm not 100% sure - let me know if you see anything like this again.
astrokath
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 3093
Best Total: 13m 42s
Posted - 2006.02.17 09:08:22
Quote:
Originally Posted by foilman
Quote:
Originally Posted by drnull
I think there's a slight problem when you get the same number of changes, but takes you longer than the top scorer.  It tells you that you have the best result recorded, which isn't *really* true.
Thanks for the info... I think I've got it fixed, but I'm not 100% sure - let me know if you see anything like this again.

You don't seem to have it quite fixed yet - I just completed today's kwontom wrong, and jimbobjoe was listed as having the best result even though someone else had the same number of moves in a quicker time.
foilman
Kwon-Tom Admin
Puzzles: 1718
Best Total: 24m 8s
Posted - 2006.02.17 09:14:21
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrokath
You don't seem to have it quite fixed yet - I just completed today's kwontom wrong, and jimbobjoe was listed as having the best result even though someone else had the same number of moves in a quicker time.
That's helped... found it and fixed it - thanks!
astrokath
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 3093
Best Total: 13m 42s
Posted - 2006.02.17 09:58:42
Another quick query - I note that Stephen has the exact same move count AND time as me for kwontom wrong today.  Is that a coincidence, or another glitch?  I expect it's the former, but you might want to check.
foilman
Kwon-Tom Admin
Puzzles: 1718
Best Total: 24m 8s
Posted - 2006.02.17 10:26:38
Well I've never seen the two of you in the same place... so... hmmm....

No actually it's just a coincidence. He's in the same office as me and I can confirm his time & count were genuine.
Stephen
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 2922
Best Total: 22m 33s
Posted - 2006.02.17 10:30:21
Surprised me too..!
procrastinator
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 1083
Best Total: 12m 56s
Posted - 2006.02.17 13:22:31
Since these extend back to the beginning, I doubt the changing number is part of the original puzzle construction. So how do you know there's always going to be a number you can change to create a new puzzle with a unique solution?
foilman
Kwon-Tom Admin
Puzzles: 1718
Best Total: 24m 8s
Posted - 2006.02.17 13:39:58
Well I don't know that there is going to be such a number, the code tries changing every number on the board in turn and checks to see which one would make the hardest to solve puzzle. So far every puzzle has had a number that can be changed, but I've no idea if that will always be the case. If so, there'll be a day without a Wrong.
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