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Logic vs. Intuition
astrokath
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 3093
Best Total: 13m 42s
Posted - 2006.02.15 11:01:51
Today's puzzle was rather interesting.  The left and right sides could be easily solved logically, and the central portion less easily.  So, instead of ruling out each route slowly and logically, I decided to opt for intuition instead, deciding which route round the central 2's I though would be correct, and building outwards from there.  In fact, I reckon those 2's were the best place to move on from - think about it.  Count the number of ends in each half of the puzzle, and look for the pinch point.

I'm curious - when do you lot turn on the intuition?  Always?  Sometimes?  Rarely?  Never?  Whenever it feels right?

Of course, it's a bit of a gamble.  Get it right, and you get a nice time.  Get it wrong...
drnull
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 901
Best Total: 23m 25s
Posted - 2006.02.15 12:44:59
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrokath
Today's puzzle was rather interesting.  The left and right sides could be easily solved logically,

I'm still trying to figure out how the left & right sides are solved logically?  I had to use FP a TON to get the sides done.
astrokath
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 3093
Best Total: 13m 42s
Posted - 2006.02.15 13:33:34
Quote:
Originally Posted by drnull


I'm still trying to figure out how the left & right sides are solved logically?  I had to use FP a TON to get the sides done.

Top right and bottom left logically.  One FP for bottom right (remember the patterns for the vertical 323).  Top left corner - the top 3 is the easiest place to rule out false routes, I reckon, and you quickly solve that part from there.  That just leaves the middle.

I don't know whether you spotted the pattern I use in the bottom left corner...

With this set-up, you have to mark a cross here...

... otherwise you get stuck with the closed loop...

Avoiding this particular closed-loop is something I watch out for - it can often also help with marking crosses if it's another number in place of the 1, depending on the exact layout of the puzzle.
Last edited by astrokath - 2006.02.15 13:39:21
drnull
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 901
Best Total: 23m 25s
Posted - 2006.02.15 13:43:53
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrokath
Top right and bottom left logically.  One FP for bottom right (remember the patterns for the vertical 323).  Top left corner - the top 3 is the easiest place to rule out false routes, I reckon, and you quickly solve that part from there.  That just leaves the middle.
I did remember the 323 pattern, that helped.  I guess I just didn't pick the right spots to key off of.  Going back through it now, what you're saying makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by astrokath
I don't know whether you spotted the pattern I use in the bottom left corner...
I also like that pattern.

Btw, you should go through it again, and look more closely at that middle section.  It can be solved with a minimum of guesswork (or intuition) by ruling out paths that (quickly) lead to ambiguous scenarios.
astrokath
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 3093
Best Total: 13m 42s
Posted - 2006.02.15 14:29:03
Quote:
Originally Posted by drnull

Btw, you should go through it again, and look more closely at that middle section.  It can be solved with a minimum of guesswork (or intuition) by ruling out paths that (quickly) lead to ambiguous scenarios.

Yes, I had another look earlier - it is quite simple in the centre, isn't it?  But my first thought on it this morning was oh-dear-that-looks-tricky... so I just stuck the lines round the 2's where it seemed to make the most sense in keeping an even number of ends in each half.  I guess my subconcious ruled out the false routes for me!
drnull
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 901
Best Total: 23m 25s
Posted - 2006.02.15 14:37:23
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrokath
Yes, I had another look earlier - it is quite simple in the centre, isn't it?  But my first thought on it this morning was oh-dear-that-looks-tricky... so I just stuck the lines round the 2's where it seemed to make the most sense in keeping an even number of ends in each half.  I guess my subconcious ruled out the false routes for me!
Well, that did obviously lead you to the fastest time, so I guess I shouldn't criticise, should I?    Besides, I wonder if maybe it's not a simple-after-the-fact type of thing.  It wasn't immediately obvious (to me) that you couldn't enter that 1 without causing a problem.
foilman
Kwon-Tom Admin
Puzzles: 1718
Best Total: 24m 8s
Posted - 2006.02.15 14:55:09
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrokath
I'm curious - when do you lot turn on the intuition?  Always?  Sometimes?  Rarely?  Never?  Whenever it feels right?

Usually when I get right near the end and it's possible to just see the solution without having to think. Sometimes it's more obvious than other times and I can fill in a large area, but more often it's just the last few lines. It's something that definitely gets easier with practise.
procrastinator
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 1083
Best Total: 12m 56s
Posted - 2006.02.16 02:49:51
When I finally got to that stage, I saw the logic of the twos very quickly - something had to pass through to satisfy them, therefore two paths to even it up. Of course it took me forever to get there - forgot to use fix position again, though I was slow anyway and made a mistake the first time.

I never place a non-FP line by intuition, but I do use intuition to direct the logical process. For instance using intuition to decide which possibilities to read out when forced to read deeply. If both branches are viable past the limits of my ability to read quickly and safely, then I'll either try somewhere else, or occassionally remember to use FP. At the moment, which Xes to put in when I get stuck and when to do it are a matter of intuition, but I'm trying to eliminate that by developing heuristics for which ones I should put in when I first find them. I'm also trying to get in the habit of using intuition and FP at the end of a problem when I think there's only one piece of information left.

Of course a far better strategy to arrest my slump would be to get some sleep now and then. No fair putting the problems out before I finish my morning coffee either, foilman! They used to come out at 4PM in Perth, which was perfect. In theory I could still wait 'til 4, but then I see those names on the leaderboard and my competitive streak takes over.
Last edited by procrastinator - 2007.04.02 08:15:16
procrastinator
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 1083
Best Total: 12m 56s
Posted - 2007.04.02 08:14:52
Quote:
Originally Posted by procrastinator

I never place a non-FP line by intuition

Sometimes I kinda do these days, but only in a specific situation: When my intuition tells me that there is enough information to solve a local area uniquely, and I see a possible solution, I just draw it in without spending the time to logically rule out other possibilities. (happens a lot with the last section of a puzzle, but then I'll often hedge with FP so it doesn't really count) I don't think I've come unstuck so far.

This intuition has arisen as a nice side-effect of learning to judge which areas are sufficiently isolated and information-low to mitigate searching for highlanders.
Rebes
Kwon-Tom Fan
Puzzles: 96
Best Total: 1h 44m 7s
Posted - 2007.04.02 13:48:33
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrokath
Quote:
Originally Posted by drnull


I'm still trying to figure out how the left & right sides are solved logically?  I had to use FP a TON to get the sides done.

Top right and bottom left logically.  One FP for bottom right (remember the patterns for the vertical 323).  Top left corner - the top 3 is the easiest place to rule out false routes, I reckon, and you quickly solve that part from there.  That just leaves the middle.

I don't know whether you spotted the pattern I use in the bottom left corner...

With this set-up, you have to mark a cross here...

... otherwise you get stuck with the closed loop...

Avoiding this particular closed-loop is something I watch out for - it can often also help with marking crosses if it's another number in place of the 1, depending on the exact layout of the puzzle.

On that pattern:



Instinctively I see that the top right corner of the lower right 3 has only 2 choices, resulting in X's on opposite side of the 1:



This then logically completes this far, at which point there are two possible paths.  Am I reading this right?



I see the two possible corner solutions:



and:



Love that puzzle insert feature...

Only thing I don't like, is if I submit a puzzle after I *think* I'm done and I've missed something, if it's in my *final* guesswork to quickly close an area, that area I've done can no longer be unfixed, which can make it hellish to try and guess where I was working from.  I've tried using the save feature just before making a "guess and submit" at the end, but have sometimes had the save feature timeout and lose my whole puzzle

If the fixed/unfixed portion would return just the way it was before you hit "done", it would really ease up some of my frustration...

R!
procrastinator
Kwon-Tom Obsessive
Puzzles: 1083
Best Total: 12m 56s
Posted - 2007.04.02 16:04:43
Rebes: astrokath's pattern was in the bottom left, not the bottom right.
Last edited by procrastinator - 2007.04.02 16:04:58
Rebes
Kwon-Tom Fan
Puzzles: 96
Best Total: 1h 44m 7s
Posted - 2007.04.02 19:17:22
My bad, guess there's one more place for the line from the 3 to go then, making my first two x's not correct...

R!

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